#And not wanting to really harm and kill anyone

[vaguely-concerned]

do you ever think about how, when we get lucanis' ossuary mind note on what he was thinking during the fireplace scene at the end of his recruitment mission... what's implied to be his instinctive internal reaction as he's saying "you'd have to kill me" out loud sure isn't 'and I don't want to die'. it's '(and spite would die)'. do you think spite's gremlin-y candle-hungering give-me-FIRE! >:D presence has maybe saved that guy's life even more times and in more ways than are immediately obvious at a glance. do you ever. cry.

it's also very. him that the thing that would stay his hand on killing himself partially might be that he just isn't willing to visit the same cruelty or harm on spite as zara, even when accepting his passenger spirit as collateral damage would at least offer a chance to put an end to his own pain, which at that point he seems unable to see any other way of truly escaping or find real relief from than to die. there's so much resentment and fear and other understandable fraught emotions in spite and lucanis' relationship early on, but it's just as clear that deep down lucanis conceptualizes spite as fundamentally innocent in what's happened here -- perhaps, indeed, more innocent than he manages to conceptualize himself until someone else can help him get in there and start to untangle it with him. he's protective of spite in some subtle ways right from the start, taking pains to point out several times on the jog through the ossuary that the spirits here were just as much victims in what was done to them as anyone else. when spite acts out during the fireplace scene... how much of lucanis brushing it off the way he does is about the '*actively bleeding from the eyes* don't worry about me' avoidant side of it all, and how much is him trying to shelter spite from the eyes of people he does not know well enough yet to predict how they’ll react in response — towards himself or spite. (additional idea to really bring on the heartache: do you think he has maybe intervened in pretty much the same way between illario and caterina over the years and that’s how he does it so smoothly and automatically; it’s basically psychological muscle memory. Haha. ow.) 

Between that and the pretty consistent language he uses that frames spite as child-like, even when he means that in frustration/enfant terrible flavoured terms lol, you get the sense that regardless of how much Lucanis is aware of this on the surface, there is a deep instinctive protectiveness in him for spite. I think that even comes across in the scene where lucanis tells you he’ll continue to pursue a way to separate him and spite on the minrathous route. So I was kind of picking up on/working with that already subconsciously, but when I found that note it hit me like a sledgehammer that clearly in some part at least, the reason lucanis is still here is that he knows now that spite would die with him and doesn’t find that price acceptable. Spite thinks that lucanis mentally locking himself in his (torture :() room and refusing to speak to him is an act of rejection or trickery, but to my eyes taken with everything else we know about how lucanis’ brain tends to work… as much as it’s an expression of avoidance and fear and overwhelm and trying to get away from the voice pushing him towards action when the mere prospect of action fills you with despair to even contemplate (“There’s nowhere to go”), I think it’s also a mark of lucanis’ affection and protectiveness of spite. The guards along the way make it very clear that more so than to keep the outside world from coming in, this place is for protecting people from what might break out. 

And that’s why I think this is also such a good case study to look at lucanis' internal freeze logic and why it has been so adaptive for him up until now when faced with completely impossible emotional situations to which there are no good answers or causes of actions available, even though it's inherently and unavoidably one of those 'what's worse, the medicine or the disease' solutions a brain cooks up. lucanis by the point of inner demons is facing this conundrum: 1) I can't live like this, it hurts too much. I've been in pain so long I’ve got screams where my blood should be and it just keeps getting louder, and nothing really touches or helps that. 2) I can't die to escape this, because that would also kill spite (and also I've got a job to do I guess *working 9-5 slowed with reverb and with underwater sound distortion effects is playing in the background*). those are of course not actually his only options, but in the state he's in they are the only options he can conceive of. (that's not infrequently how it works, when the suffering is that intense and unrelenting. Nothing gives you tunnel sight quite like ‘I just need this to stop’ agony that has gone on long enough to add sheer soul exhaustion to the mix)

so what happens in the end? his freeze brain -- honed, I'm sure, through many long years of attachment trauma and abuse and loss for exactly this kind of 'uh-oh. Incoming FUBAR situation alert let’s go' -- kicks into action and makes him do nothing except what's externally required of him, so he can stay just functional and momentarily distracted by a plethora of avoidance behaviours enough to get through his daily life, if like not particularly happily so... and otherwise, as it were, locking himself in his room deep inside where nothing can touch him, where nothing gets in and nothing gets out, no harm allowed to either escape from within nor allowed to pierce through and get inside. numbness isn't actually a cure for that kind of suffering, but it's the closest thing you're likely to get with any immediacy and if you’re desperate enough by god you take those. It’s how he survived his upbringing, and it’s how he survived the ossuary — as he tells Davrin straight out, the trick to just shut down every part of his soul he can to get through intolerable pain, loss or helplessness. I don’t think that mechanism came to him in the ossuary the first time, I think that blueprint was deeply embedded in his neurons and went ‘ah. My time again. Not to worry I’m a bit of an expert at this I’ll get us through this yet (though you may not thank me for it by the end of it all)’. 

In that state he's unable to himself reach out and meaningfully ask for help (and also like... why would his inner world have any framework for that as even being on the table? this has never been an option before in his life, not in any safe or consistent way; he's fucked up the way he is because the same things/people that should have been and partially, comparatively, were the sources of help and relief and safety growing up are also the sources of pain and abuse, that eternal irreconcilable ambivalence, the double edged sword of unpredictable insecure attachment), but it also keeps him from doing anything uh drastic the other way too, on acting impulsively in ways that can’t be taken back. (that seems to be more illario’s role/dubious privilege in the family lol.) at many points in his life and especially growing up, freezing and going numb around the pain is as close to having control of anything as there was any hope of. 'harm will be inflicted on me unpredictably, but fuck you I don't have to truly feel it as long as I shut all this other stuff down as well, that's what I can control' nervous system logic. (it'll get you every time.) for what it’s worth I’m not so sure his nervous system judged that one incorrectly, I think that is the kind of rebellion you would have to cling to while being raised by someone like caterina, because look at illario if you want to know how much she respects and rewards anything more overt or active. (I mean, if you don’t succeed, at least. swing at Grandma Dellamorte you’d better not miss or you’ll meet that cane swinging at you the other way and she will not miss)

I say all this because I think it's as easy to demonize the freeze response as it is to demonize anger, to conceptualize it only as an obstructive force that, as bellara puts it, is one of the purest forms of a heart not seeming to want to let you be happy, or a mindless byproduct of trauma. But in my experience, the brain doesn’t generally come up with ‘stupid’ defense mechanisms. Even in the most maladaptive of coping mechanisms, there is at the core of it some part of you that once meant to save your life, no matter what trouble it is wreaking for you today. when you look at the setup of Lucanis’ soul, as it were, you can see the dual and in some ways genuinely noble and even tender qualities this response has in him, however misguided: it does imprison, but it also protects, and it means to protect; for all the pain along the way it has sheltered all the parts of his soul that are most precious and breakable, the most vulnerable parts that want to live and so so importantly love completely and freely. Lucanis thinks he’s protecting not even primarily himself but everyone he loves by staying where he is. (“It would be better for me to stay here than to risk losing you”) A child’s logic, to be sure, but logic of a kind and clearly one that caterina has encouraged in him because that’s a conception of love it’s been very useful for her for him to have. Freeze looks like utter hopelessness on the surface, but in some ways I think it’s the utmost triumph of hope — a spare and unrelenting winter that exists because it thinks one day spring might still come, and the things too precious and fragile to thrive in your life as it is now might bloom then. 

He is an adult now, and Caterina no longer controls his entire world, physically and emotionally. There’s finally room for other things, other people, himself, in his life, without everything having to defer to the gravitational force of what Caterina wants from him at the end of the day. And while I think her jumpscaring him with the First Talon position is partly her attempt to wrangle him back into the status quo of control she once had, I’m not sure it’s going to work quite the way she might hope — at least in the Treviso saved route, there are just too many fresh spring shoots in his life at that point that could grow into something new, it’s too late to trample all the saplings growing up through the cracks in time (and indeed some of them might also fight back). (The outlook on the Minrathous saved route is um. Perhaps less convincingly immediately hopeful to me and the prospect of actually getting around to healing further down the road, but I refuse to give up on him that’s my little guy and he’s above all incredibly smart and stubborn and not a quitter and all the rest of this still remains true beneath it all, just like. Give him a moment here.) His hopes and dreams have diversified while she had her back turned lmao he suddenly keeps them with so many more people than just her and Iillario now. She doesn’t hold the monopoly of meaning and connection in his life the way she used to. And whether out of love (you know. Hope is every man’s prerogative I suppose) at seeing him really happy for perhaps the first time or sheer pragmatism, I think she’s going to have to accept that and adapt her ways of doing things with him accordingly, or else have him drift even further away from her.

Spite is the urgent impatient voice that starts to break through to go ‘that moment is now it HAS to be now. We need to shake off the shackles and illusions and face what’s actually here so we can learn to properly live now, or this winter will starve us to death as surely as anything Zara could do to us’. And he is right! As crucial as this soul-starvation landscape has been in survival, it has clearly reached the end of its sustainability, you can’t survive permanently on frost alone. I just also want to recognize the credit Lucanis (and his fucked up but valiant nervous system <3 pour one out for a real one) also deserves for stubbornly holding on in any way he had to until Spite’s true escape project is even an option for either of them. Especially since Lucanis seems to harbour a lot of self-loathing and frustration over his own propensity for freeze — “You know him. You can open the door, but he won’t walk through it”  (still one of the saddest most painful things I’ve ever heard. In case you were wondering. He knows. He knows what he’s like, and he despairs of it, he thinks it means it’s his own fault he still feels like this. Augh.) The real point at the end of the day is not that spite saved lucanis or vice versa, but that as traumatic as it was to get there and against all cultural expectations, it is ultimately their enmeshed condition, their togetherness, that saved them both. (which, again, when you consider the cultural narrative of possession and spirits most andrastian nations are working with…what a radical conclusion to come away with haha. Not unprecedented at all, if you look at Wynne and her spirit, but on a deeper and more psychological plane than ever and even more impactful for it, to me.)

[ofbatsandballads]

Hi Rae. Who gave you permission to snap my heart in two at midnight? No, really, this has me going insane so have my ranting under the cut:

He's not normal. Not someone you should be happy to see. […] But you are– everytime he drags his weary body to your window– you're happy. You smile, welcome him inside like he has a place there.

The way I’m already screaming “because he does have a place there!” before we’ve even hit the end. Something about Jason not being able to accept love not because other people are liars or insincere but because he can’t comprehend why anyone would love him is so heartbreakingly in character.

It's not like he can offer the same back or return the favors you so freely give. He wants to– at least he thinks he does– he just gets stuck when it comes to what to do with you.

Reciprocity—tit for tat, an eye for an eye—being so ingrained in his perception of the world and of himself that he can’t realize he doesn’t have to return the favor, that he can just accept the kindness for what it is, makes me want to cry. Thanks.

shocked to stillness each time your hands don't bring a wave of hurt to his skin.

Stray dog coded Jason who doesn’t know what to do when touch doesn’t hurt is so dear to me. I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again: your characterization of him is golden.

He adores you. He won't admit it to anyone, not even to himself most of the time. But he does.

Jason who loves so deeply, so completely that it could destroy him. Jason who has spent both of his lives just trying to stay above water, running from anything that could harm him. Jason who was killed because he loved so fiercely. Just…him finding himself loving someone that much again and sort of bluescreening on what that means for him.

There is no happy ending when all he can offer is fleeting comforts and one word answers. He doesn't deserve your patience, your endless willingness to understand and wait for him to figure himself out.

The absolute overpowering emotion of needing to drill it into his head with love and kindness and care that there is a happy ending with all of that actually. And that he does deserve good things and patience and love. I just know loving him would be so frustrating sometimes but that each time it would just make you want to stick around more.

If he knew how, he'd ask if you were really okay with who he is, what he does, how he acts. Your eagerness to make him feel like he does fit into any place in your life makes him wonder if it's all just a mask. If you're just waiting for him to be at his worst to reveal that it's all a lie– that he's truly and devastatingly unwanted.

So this whole paragraph took me out but that last line destroyed me. The phrase “truly and devastatingly unwanted” is going to live rent free in my head for a while now.

it's just that the store was out and he was bleeding too heavily through his suit to stop at anywhere else.

I recently read a piece of Jason meta that said that he would accept any and all harm or mistreatment just to get the companionship and love he craves and this really speaks to that because why are you picking up ice cream when you’re bleeding out??? Oh, it’s because he thinks he’s unworthy of basic human decency if he has nothing to offer.

You're just too good. Everything Jason isn't. He feels like he's dragging you down with him when you offer to keep emergency weapons for him hidden in your apartment. He's definitely staining everything you are with his greedy hands when you start keeping extra first aid kits in your closet.

Clawing at the walls while screaming “they do it because they love you!!!” I love reading this from the perspective of his partner because it’s just sitting here listening to the internal monologue of man that is confidently incorrect. Your description of him being an unreliable narrator is spot on.

And when you clean out a drawer in your dresser for him to keep clothes in, when you stock your cupboards with all his preferred foods, fill your shelves with his favorite books, and play the songs he loves to hum along to, he selfishly lets himself believe you might want this forever too. You do.

One of my favorite things about how you write Jason is that he always, without fail, breaks at the end just a little bit. The sustained love and care and kindness always manages to get the tiniest foothold in his soul, like a flower growing through a crack in concrete. Even when he thinks he’s being selfish or delusional or blindly hopeful. It’s so true to what loving someone like him would be like—slow and gradual and hard fought, but resolute and unflinching.

So yeah, in short I love this with my entire being and I will be sending you the bill for my therapy (please never stop writing).

If He Could

Jason is an unreliable narrator ~1k words

Jason's no good for you. He's too brash, too rough, too easily pulled away to defend the streets of Gotham. He's a liability in your life, a dark stain in the otherwise perfect fabric of your reality. He's all the worst of shadowed alleys and tortured corners of decaying apartments.

He's quick to pull a weapon, even quicker to throw a punch. He doesn't quite remember how to make his smile look natural, how to stand without his shoulders tense and ready to dodge whatever comes his way. He's not normal. Not someone you should be happy to see.

But you are– everytime he drags his weary body to your window– you're happy. You smile, welcome him inside like he has a place there.

And he doesn't know what to do with it. Doesn't know how he should react to your bright eyes and soft touches and fond words. It's not like he can offer the same back or return the favors you so freely give. He wants to– at least he thinks he does– he just gets stuck when it comes to what to do with you.

He knows he shouldn't tense up at your reassuring pats to his arms– but he freezes, shocked to stillness each time your hands don't bring a wave of hurt to his skin. He knows he shouldn't be so quiet when you ramble about your day, but he can't find the words to describe just how much he does care about every mundane fact you share with him.

And oh, does he care. Too much even. Cares in a way that scares him off the grid for days at a time, only to sheepishly find his way back to your fire escape with a tub of melting ice cream or cooling coffee and a half-baked excuse on his tongue.

He adores you. He won't admit it to anyone, not even to himself most of the time. But he does. It's you who he wants to come back to when his feet ache and his eyes strain to make out words and figures. It's you who makes him feel not so heavy when the sun starts to rise over the tired, crumbling buildings he knows better than his own skin.

He has a portion of his heart and mind set aside just for you. But Jason can't tell you that. The more he relents to you (because he can never say no when you ask), the more he threatens to ruin you. He's a slow rot, a plague that sets into the very marrow of your bones.

But you don't see it. He doesn't want you to, but you should. You should understand that by carving out a place for him besides you, you are going to destroy yourself from the inside out.

There is no happy ending when all he can offer is fleeting comforts and one word answers. He doesn't deserve your patience, your endless willingness to understand and wait for him to figure himself out.

It's not fair to you– to either of you. But he always ends up back in your living room, always ends up with his hands curling into fists as you graciously take whatever food or trinket he's brought to try and win your continued affections.

He secretly believes he must be the most selfish person in the world when he leans into your warm hugs, when he passes out on your couch after your semi-regular movie nights. (He tries not to linger on what it means when he sleeps better on your old, worn furniture than his own bed)

It's cruel of him to lead you on like this. It's cruel of him to set himself up for heartbreak. You'll learn that he's not worth your time soon enough. But, for now, he can't help but bask in the way you offer to stitch the tears in his clothes, the way you so excitedly ask him to try every new recipe you've made.

If he knew how, he'd ask if you were really okay with who he is, what he does, how he acts. Your eagerness to make him feel like he does fit into any place in your life makes him wonder if it's all just a mask. If you're just waiting for him to be at his worst to reveal that it's all a lie– that he's truly and devastatingly unwanted.

Those words still haven't come from either of your lips– don't come– even when he messes up and brings you the wrong flavor of ice cream. (It's not that he forget what you liked– it's just that the store was out and he was bleeding too heavily through his suit to stop at anywhere else)

The words don't even come when he doesn't tell you why he disappeared for over a month this time. (Someone got too close to his identity– to you. He had to track down everyone involved before he could even think of resting or seeing you again)

Jason wants to have the right words, wants to do the right thing, and make you laugh and watch your eyes light up because of something he did. He wants to hug you back in a way that makes you feel safe and needed and wanted above all else. He wants to. He just doesn't deserve to give you that, even if he knew how to do it.

You're just too good. Everything Jason isn't. He feels like he's dragging you down with him when you offer to keep emergency weapons for him hidden in your apartment. He's definitely staining everything you are with his greedy hands when you start keeping extra first aid kits in your closet.

But for the life of him, he can't stop. Can't stop his familiar trek to your windowsill. Can't stop craving the hugs you offer, the conversations you share.

He wants this forever. He wants to keep this– you– whatever this is, in between his fingers and never let go. (He could if you'd just let him) You would.

And when you clean out a drawer in your dresser for him to keep clothes in, when you stock your cupboards with all his preferred foods, fill your shelves with his favorite books, and play the songs he loves to hum along to, he selfishly lets himself believe you might want this forever too. You do.

[iiannabxth]

Something I think is neat about Eden’s Garden is that everyone has an animal that represents them.

For example, Wolfgang’s animal motif is a sheep, therefore, sheep are associated with his character. (Ex: his blackmail is a play on “a wolf in sheep’s clothing.”) That being said, I don’t think Wolfgang is a sheep, rather, he is a shepherd. Wolfgang is quickly established as the “leader” of the group. As a lawyer, he’s used to defending the helpless, so he steps in to protect a group of people who he thinks need his guidance.

I’ve seen people debate about the motivations behind Wolfgang’s optimistic approach to the killing game, but I believe they were entirely wholehearted. Something I’ve seen a lot is the idea that “Wolfgang was blindly leading the group because he didn’t even seem to believe what he was saying.” While it’s true that Wolfgang didn’t entirely believe that no one in the group would possibly kill another person, I think he wanted the others to believe that.

Going back to the shepherd metaphor, Wolfgang was trying to convince the group— his “flock”— that everything would be alright. He knows that they are in a dangerous situation, but he wants the group to believe that they can trust each other, which allows them to make bonds and friendships. He also tries to eliminate any feeling of inferiority between the ultimates, as he insists that everyone’s ultimate is important and can possibly benefit humanity. Through all of this, the creation of relationships would hypothetically prevent a murder from occurring because there would be a feeling of harmony among them.

This mentality is why characters like Eva and Damon quickly get singled out. The majority of the group is receptive to Wolfgang’s encouragement because they want to believe him. However, Eva and Damon immediately dispute this and blatantly state what everyone is secretly thinking: that they really can’t trust each other. They also think that some ultimates, such as their own, are more valuable than others. (Ex: Damon thinks his talent as the Ultimate Debater is more important than Diana’s or Cassidy’s.) Because they disagree with the group and are disrupting Wolfgang’s attempt to cultivate peace, he allows them to be ostracized by the others. Even though it creates discourse, it protects the rest of the group.

However, there’s a difference between Eva and Damon. While both Damon and Eva are initially singled out from the group, Damon manages to reintegrate. Unlike Eva, Damon works to form relationships with the other ultimates and proves that while he doesn’t entirely agree with Wolfgang, he’s not a threat to the harmony that Wolfgang is trying to create. Eva, on the other hand, maintains her beliefs that she does not trust the others and isn’t going to play nice with them. (Ironically, she proves Wolfgang’s philosophy by trusting Damon, but that’s a whole other rant lol.)

I disagree heavily with the idea that Wolfgang is egotistical and is leading the group solely because he wants their praise/admiration. I think that he genuinely wants to protect people he views as his “friends.” He gives them the benefit of the doubt when he logically shouldn’t. This is why he goes to meet the person who wrote the letter, but he brings a weapon just in case. Wolfgang is not naïve and he knows that every single person in their class has the potential to harm another, but by placing trust in them and setting the expectation that they won’t harm anyone, he helps them to believe in each other.

— Side note: I think that his tendency to believe in others comes from something to do with his past/his father. (His hallucinations/delusions when talking to Diana suggest that he is actively trying to rise above someone else’s shadow and break a harmful cycle, likely to do with his parents.) I believe his blackmail is a dig at him, as he is possibly trying not to be like his father by attempting to be a good person?

Anyway, I think that Wolfgang’s sheep motif is incredibly important to his character and I think it really reflects his personality and philosophy ^^

[avelera]

(Heimerdinger anon here) Thank you sm for your thoughts, TBH I hadn't even really considered that Heimerdinger in the alternate dimension might just be making the best out of a shitty situation and doesn't want to introduce Hextech just for himself, which.. yeah fair, I guess I was making my assumption with s1 Heimerdinger in mind and didn't recognize this as character growth. I do like how he is written overall and that he only ever causes harm unintentionally/out of ignorance, because we don't see this type of character very often. I guess my biases are showing because he can be really flippantly cruel sometimes without even realizing and I know ppl like that IRL so the death sirens were activating on sight lmao (your post made me reevaluate some things, basically). Out of curiosity, how do you think Heimerdinger would have reacted to Arcane-infected Jayce and the Machine Herald? I personally think he would have been really shaken

Thank you!

I think the narrative treats Heimerdinger pretty kindly as inflicting most of the harm he does out of ignorance or naiveté, rather than malice or self-interest. He wants what's best for everyone in the long-run, he's just naturally become detached from the normal cycle of a human life, which leads him to the abject cruelty you mentioned. It is a flaw, but I think Arcane takes into account that it's not intentional and sort of punishes him accordingly, since no one in the narrative is perfect.

That said, I absolutely don't blame anyone for getting Kill Bill sirens about him lol. A lot of what he does in S1 especially is so unintentionally cruel and indirectly harmful that it makes my jaw drop. I think he more than most characters deserves a lot of recrimination. "Nice" is different than "good", a fact that goes a long way to making a lot of people think he's harmless, when really his greatest crime is negligence, and he's also not perfect. He's right about Hextech but he is wrong about Jayce not presenting the new crystals, for example. Not that Heimerdinger could have known, but if Jayce had presented the crystals on stage, there's no way Jinx could have stolen them.

As for your question about how how he would have reacted basically to Act 3 Viktor and Jayce, I have 2 answers:

1 ) Doylist (out of universe): I think one reason the narrative deliberately removed Heimerdinger from the story for Act 3 is because the tone of his character is so at odds with the war that ensues and the seriousness of infected Jayce and Machine Herald Viktor. Like Hoskel and Bolbok, Arcane in S2 rather carefully removes a lot of our silly, bizarre, or comedy relief characters like Heimerdinger from the narrative so they don't contrast with the tone.

2 ) Watsonian (in universe): I think it would have taken every ounce of the new-found grace and understanding for short-lived people for Heimerdinger to now say the world's longest, loudest, "I TOLD YOU SO," at the sight of the final result of Jayce and Viktor's choices that he warned them against at every stage. That said, I don't think Jayce would fight him on that point at all. Jayce heard a lot of Heimerdinger's voice in the torture cave specifically. I think he'd give Heimerdinger a big hug and an apology and maybe cry a bit more because his whole life would be so much less of a fucking mess if he had listened.

[kurishiri]

Hii! In your post about team snow you mentioned Alfons and how he's a mirror so it feels like he reverses things and I'm begging for more thoughts on that🙏🏻 I have been so lost on what Alfons's boosted sinful trait is (like Liam's curiosity & Elbert's greed) and I'd really like to hear your thoughts on it🤍

hii michelle! aa ,, sorry for the late reply! i wanted to sort of sit down and get in the head zone to answer this with thoughts, haha. also to anyone stumbling on this post, here is the mentioned post i made abt team snow white!

my thoughts abt alfons' curse and sin (spoiler warning) ↓

so we have the chaotic night story in jp to go off of a little when it comes to al's sinful trait. in there, he basically says that whatever others desire is reflected onto himself. in that story, he is able to show the other's desires even without touching the back of their neck (namely, kate's).

and i think, as a byproduct, this leads to a lot of self-destruction and self-harm, which in al's case, is partially due to his trauma, but half of his trauma is rooted in his curse as well. of course, "sins" can be defined as hurting, killing, etc. others, but i think in a lot of cases — al being no exception — a lot of it is to the self. the body can arguably be thought of as like a sacred vessel for the soul (...more so as a philosophical concept, so there are multiple interpretations on what entails the "body", "mind", and whatnot), so to harm that could be just as sinful as harming others. for liam and elbert, it's similar. there r countless times liam has gotten hurt himself while trying to satisfy his curiosity, and elbert's greed keeps him in a cycle of "atonement" so deeply, al was basically indirectly but also kind of blatantly asking for kate's help with elbie (by openly telling his past to her).

which leads me to my next point: he constantly thinks of others. if he thinks of himself, he is indifferent and thinks of himself as lower than others (even though he is a "noble" who is able to stand by elbie's side). in other words, another thing could be that he is — or feels — inherently absent from the world. he is physically there, and yet nowhere at the same time. they have times in his main story where they describe him as being in between reality and illusion, the front and back of a mirror. a mirage that, once you grasp ahold of it with your fingertips, vanishes right before you. he can't see himself living in reality, in the world, and in other's worlds...even elbie's.

and yet, in a bit of a twisted way, almost, i think elbie and al are bound to and meant for each other (similar to jude and ellis if you think abt it). alfons also reflects elbie's desires, in a way that's beyond his control, so arguably that can be pinned on fate. elbie wants to keep al by his side, and would never let him die because he needs al. and, sure, elbie does have bad luck, which is why in all the games they've played together, in a traditional sense, elbie would lose (and hence al would depart from the world, adieu!). except the one he is playing with is al, who reverses the conditions, so to speak. for example, if they do a coin toss, if the coin landed on tails, the one who guessed heads would win, and vice versa. so elbie then "wins" every match and, thus, keeps al by his side. so, even in these games, i think al is thinking of what elbie wants here.

tl;dr to alfons, he lives in a world where everyone exists but himself. he is never in this world, in other's worlds...and even his own world.

[moustawott]

The movie’s final cut doesn’t necessarily contradict what Orion believes in the animatic imo, though maybe the writers overestimated the audience’s ability to read between the lines and their knowledge of politics and the judiciary system 😅 or maybe it was pacing/time constraints, or maybe it was corporate interference, we’ll never know

My analysis/thoughts under the cut:

Orion says a new society can’t begin with an execution and he’s right in a way: it only leads to fear and instability in the aftermath. + As many have noted, there’s this aspect of a cycle of violence: Sentinel kills the Primes and takes Megatronus’ T-Cog, D-16 does the same. If D had become leader instead of Sentinel, there’s noooooo way it would’ve gone well (and I’m not sure if Megatron would’ve ever been convinced to let anyone except him be the leader of their new society, he becomes a believer in the "might is right" philosophy after all)

Orion was also correct in believing that the peaceful solution should be prioritized: they wouldn’t have had anything to lose trying! And if using the recording didn’t work, then D-16 would’ve been justified

You also can’t have a single person be judge, jury, and executioner — that’s what D was trying to be — cuz that’s just autocracy, and Orion wanted to stop that (on top of trying to stop his best friend from completely losing himself). Sentinel was surrendering! He was all beaten up by D-16! He couldn’t actually harm anyone meaningfully at that point! The great majority of Iacon was against him now, and remember when Sentinel was trying to escape D-16? He was crawling away, he couldn’t fly or use any of his weapons!

I think there were a few writing decisions that went into cutting Orion’s lines:

Tighter pacing: the fact Orion and D don’t really have a quiet moment to unpack everything justifies D-16’s fall better. If D was given a chance to calm down, he couldn’t have been angry enough to drop Orion

Story intent: in the end, this isn’t political drama, it’s interpersonal drama. The politics of TFOne had to be put aside to focus on the drama between characters and their imperfections. I’m just glad TFOne gave us something that actually makes sense within TF lore as a whole! D-16 is sympathetic, but he’s also very wrong! He acts like a fascist; he takes advantage of societal injustice and people’s anger and directs this anger towards selfish goals! That’s how fascism rise every time! Orion Pax is naive, but he is right! He just needs to be better at choosing the right words and inspiring people! (My biggest pet peeve in the IDW continuity is Megatron having based politics, but ending up being a megalomaniac genocider. Hate that trope of justified "villains" and "good guys" maintaining the unjust system, TFOne makes it actually work by giving D-16 understandable reasons, but hella cringe politics lol)

Orion’s flaws: Orion still has room to grow. He couldn’t find the perfect words to explain everything to D-16, nor to calm him down, and that’s a mistake he’ll try to never repeat again. The cut lines are what Optimus would say, not Orion, not yet (I will still lament the loss of the most explicitly based Orion/Optimus we ever had, jakdlkajaj, gimme an MLK/Nelson Mandela-like Optimus that isn’t whitewashed to hell)

Again, we as an audience have hindsight and know the tragedy that’s coming, the characters can’t. Orion never could’ve expected D-16 becoming Megatron, how could he?? That’s his rules-following, hardworking best friend! And Orion wasn’t necessarily wrong to worry about exposing Sentinel first, they were being chased by the drones! And D-16 is a mature responsible bot, no? Orion can trust him to take care of himself

So we end up with this ambiguity in the final scene, and I’m not sure if I can call it good or bad, but it does make for some good conversation opener, especially about American attitudes towards vengeance + punishment = good justice system (cuz like, really, does the death sentence really have more benefits than restorative justice? Is the death sentence actually about long-term, concrete, societal good or actually about satisfying our personal resentment?)

I am so fucking VINDICATED

(From the movie’s draft script, link to the full animatic at the end of the post)

I’m so upset this movie couldn’t have been just a little more obvious about Orion’s beliefs, cuz the final version does look (at first glance) like Orion is playing out the trope “nooo, we can’t kill the fascist bad guy bc killing bad”

The only reason why I picked up on the writer’s og intentions was thanks to the way D-16 was built up: it’s very, very clear that he wants to kill Sentinel only for self-satisfaction and not true justice

I think the reasons so many have misunderstood that scene were:

A. The writer not being obvious enough with Orion who’s fine with Sentinel dying, he just doesn’t want D-16 to commit murder for self-satisfaction (the movie novelization and this animatic don’t have the same problem)

B. Americans love punishment in their justice system (and online “progressive” fandoms too, I can talk about this for hours lol). A major reason why death penalty still exists in the US is because of this kind of attitude where people will seek self-satisfaction and virtue signalling above true, restorative justice. This is why people support D-16’s way of thinking so much. But Orion is right: a functional—ideal—society can’t be executing people, everyone must have a chance for redemption, because if we draw a line between those who deserve and those who don’t, the line will always move in a way to fuck over some random unlucky people eventually

C. People are projecting too much IDW Megatron unto TFOne Megatron. Like, sure, IDW Megatron is based and Coptimus is cursed, but this ain’t the case in TFOne 😭 like at all 😭 D-16 is obviously meant to reflect right-wing thinking (he joins the High “might is right” Guard for fucks sake)

Blah blah something something poor literacy and people lacking the ability to infer/interpret stuff and needing everything spelled out, especially with movies where there’s not just textual info but also visual storytelling + pre-existing tropes that taint our perception of this story

[brick-van-dyke]

If there's one thing I've respectively noticed from Zionists and defenders of Israeli war crimes, it's that every source, argument and potential avenue to explore each explanation is riddled with cherry picking, moving the goalposts and mental gymnastics to explain why their conclusions, which typically are barely even related to the sources they use, somehow overshadow literal reality and what we see with our own eyes.

While scrolling, one example I came across was the repetitive misrepresentation of BLM, antifa and quotes from Martin Luther King Jr, as well as statistics, scholarly journal articles and government website information. These are all good sources, yet every single time they're mangled completely until the only possible "interpretation" of any of them is "well Israel is right to defend itself after shorting rockets beforehand because the retaliation was brutal and all Arabs are bad by default therefore". As if any of these sources are even about individual exceptions of Israel versus hatred towards Arabs.

I think what I find most absurd, as someone in the middle of their own studies, is how every bit of critical thinking and logic goes out the window as they do every single thing possible to do what professors worldwide say NOT to do when evaluating sources. It's like watching a race to see who can tangle and misconstrue scientific information to fit their world view the fastest. Then said people say "um actually I studied at university before so it's actually not wrong that I'm doing this exact this everyone is warned not to do because I have a permit". Ignorance I can forgive, but willful and arrogant manipulation? That's another thing entirely.

[jupiter--dream]

(cw vent, sorry it's just been A Couple Of Days)

Not really having many irl friends comes at the price of feeling so terribly lonely, I feel like I have no one to talk to because I'm not close to enough people, or maybe I am and I just haven't talked to them in a while and I don't want this to be our first conversation qwq

I'm honestly just. Tired, tbh qwq

[haru-chi]

I'm sorry if I had worried anyone yesterday ... I didn't mean to ...

I think I even kinda regret having worried my sister because I asked for little help which she couldn't do so got worried ...

I then called my friend after that which was very late at night 3AM .... she got also worried cuz I never ever did that ...

I hate this .... I really do .... because I do know none can help me in this, it's my own battle so why worry them

Wanted to vent here for a bit and I'm sorry if made someone worry ...

[beef-brisket]

((Sorry for the two posts, I really thought I deleted one 💀

But thanks for actually making it make sense! I deleted one, so it'll flow a little better.))

Lucifer stared ahead, not focusing on anything. His mind is going through his thoughts too quickly for Lucifer to even begin to understand.

He couldn't even pinpoint and focus on one thing his father said. Only words summarised what happened; meddling, defeat and hopelessness.

There was nothing Lucifer could do. He was alone. And his people, his family, were in danger. Lucifer, for the first time in his entire life, was powerless.

Collapsing to the ground, Lucifer turned to face his city and leaned back against the altar. The blood of the lamb started to soak into his coat and hair.

Lucifer: This is it. It's over. Before it even began...

Adam: Man, you're so dramatic.

Lucifer jumped, looking to his left, his eyes widened as they landed on the hulking figure of the first man.

Lucifer: Adam- please. I... I mean you no harm-.

Adam: Ha! Harm. That's cute. I could melt you I to the pavement, but thanks for clearing that up.

Adam sat next to Lucifer and pulled out a cigarette.

Adam: Want one?

Lucifer stated at him, unsure of whether he should run or just beg for an early death. He chose neither.

Lucifer: ...no.

Adam smirked before popping the smoke in his mouth: Good.

Summoning a flame on his finger, he lit the tip and breathed in before blowing out the smoke.

Adam: Man, I couldn't imagine how you're feeling. Not that I fucking care. But this must be pretty frustrating, huh?

Lucifer closed his eyes and breathed out, trying to calm himself: T-Thats one word for it.

Adam: Aw, Luci~. Am I scaring you?

Lucifer: ...I'm more worried, than scared.

Adam shrugged before smirking: Looks like I need to try harder.

Lucifer: Adam... I... why are you doing this?

Adam glanced at him, and the intensity of his golden eyes made Lucifer shrink back, making him look even smaller.

Adam: You just talked to the big man, right? I'm literally you. The you humans on earth fear. I'm the idea of Hell that makes them cry and fear death. And... I'm fucking exhausted.

Lucifer's eyes widened before looking at Adam. That's when he was reminded about his conversation with Alastor. Abaddon is the powerful one, Adam is the one holding them back. He's the weak one.

Lucifer: ...Why are you telling me this?

Adam shrugged: Because you're fucking nothing. I can do whatever I want to you, and there's nothing you or anyone else can do about it. Now, you're the only person I know in this fucking shit heap, so I'm talking to you. I don't give a fuck if you listen or not.

Lucifer: ...I'll listen. It's the least I could so.

Adam: The least you could do is die, but that's for another time.

Lucifer: ...why are you exhausted? On tv- when you killed Valentine, you looked...

He wanted to throw up as he remembered Adam's deranged smile, the way he laughed and talked to his audience. He was loving it.

Lucifer: Like you enjoyed it.

Adam laughed: That's not his name, old man. And yeah, I fucken enjoyed it. I love it. Crave it. I crave all of it. I'm excited to get back into the swing of things, actually. Sinners are fun and all, but the real fuckers? The real sick freaks? That's the overlords. So, I have my next one lined up.

Lucifer: ...D-Do you remember... whe we'd go swimming at the lake?

Adam rolled his eyes and took another drag of his smoke.

Adam: The fuck about it?

Lucifer: ...I missed you, Adam-.

Adam growled, making Lucifer instantly quieten.

Adam: You don't miss me. If you missed me, you would have... fuck, you would have done something. Not that I would have let you. I'm fucking over you, Lucifer. One of the things I look forward to is finally getting the goahead from big G to blow your fucking head off.

Lucifer: Adam, I-.

Adam: You only miss me because finally, someone can stand against you. Beat you down till you're nothing. I bet it's killing you that it's me, huh? Just Adam. You don't give a damn about me, Lucifer. Never have. No matter how much I begged for you,.I was never good enough.

Lucifer jumped as Adam stood, throwing his smoke away.

Adam: The quicker you accept this, the easier it'll be. Oh, and Lucifer?

He breathes out slowly before turning to look up at Adam.

Adam: Tell that deer fucker to switch on the TV in three days. At 6pm. I have a little show I'm sure he'd love to watch~.

Lucifer quickly stood as Adam started walking the stairs. He ran after him, slipping down a few stars to keep up with him.

Lucifer: A-Adam! Wait!

Adam smirked and turned to face Lucifer: What's up?

Lucifer sighs: I... I'm sorry. For everything.

Adam stares at him for a moment: Wow, Lucifer... that's big, coming from from you.

Lucifer was about to say something, but Adam cut him off with a loud laugh.

Adam: Sorry? SORRY?! Do you seriously think that means anything? You were a fucking pig during our meetings, especially with your whore of a wife. But no, now that you're nothing and I'm everything, you seriously think I give a damn about your apology?! Here's an idea, shove it up your fucking ass! And I'll be seeing you soon~.

Lucifer has never felt so defeated. So desperate. And so miserable. He missed his sweet darling Adam.

He watched as Adam disappeared as Lucifer blinked. He was gone, leaving Lucifer alone.

Tormentor of souls au

Darkness surrounded him like a blanket. Only he was no way comfortable or felt safe. He felt fear grip him like iron as he tried to make even a sliver sense of his situation. He could barely a muscle, if he had any muscle to pull. It felt like he had nothing to move, was this what happened to the souls he exorcised? 

Were they to end up here for eternity, slowly being drove insane with nothing but your thoughts to keep you company? Adam couldn’t even try to open his mouth to speak, well he did try, but the only words that would escape from him were from within his mind. In his mind he sighed, he was just so tired, he didn’t have any strength to fight, to argue that he shouldn’t be here. Yet what exactly was the point? He’d only tire himself further out. 

He had to admit it, he was stuck here, for all eternity. Much the same as a sinner. 

That was when he saw it a flicker of light. Not just any light, a pure white light. A light that was so familiar, one that brought him joy when it spoke to him in his booming voice.

His creator 

“GREETINGS MY SON. IT HAS BEEN SO LONG SINCE I HAVE LAST SPOKE TO YOU AND FOR THAT I APOLOGIZE”

Adam didn’t care he was just so thankful to be in his creator’s presence.

“MY SON I KNOW THAT YOU HAVE LIVED A LIFE OF HARDSHIP AND THAT IT DID NOT STOP EVEN WHEN YOU PERISHED.” 

He tried to not flinch at that. Thinking about his first life brought too many unpleasant memories.

“THAT IS WHY IT BRINGS ME PAIN TO ASK YOU OF THIS, BUT I NEED YOUR ASSISTANCE ONCE MORE. I KNOW OF WHAT YOU HAVE DONE THESE PAST FEW CENTURIES, AND I HAVE TO SAY THAT IT WAS NOT THE SOLUTION”

Adam could not believe what he was hearing. His own creator believed that they, the murderers and rapists, deserved to be redeemed!?

“HELL IS MEANT TO BE A PUNISHMENT, ETERNAL TORMENT OF THE SINS LUCIFER CORRUPTED WITH HIS WAY OF FREE WILL. HOWEVER MANY OF THEM DON’T SEE IT THAT WAY. TO THEM HELL IS MERELY A PLAYGROUND WHERE RULES NO LONGER MATTER. I HAVE SEEN TRUE MONSTROUS ACTS THE WICKED HAVE BROUGHT WITH THEM FROM LIFE. THEY CARRY IT MOST OUT ON THE TRUE CITIZENS OF HELL, THE ONES THAT HAD NO SAY IN BEING THERE OR NOT.”

The hell born, Adam thought taking in the Lord’s words

“I KNOW I AM NOT THEIR CREATOR, NOR DO THEY CALL ME FATHER, BUT I HAVE HEARD THEIR PLEAS FOR HELP TO BE SAVED FROM THE ACTS OF THE WICKED, OF ALL WICKED. UNFORTUNATELY THERE IS NOTHING I CAN DO ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE BORN DOWN THERE, BUT I CAN STOP THE SINNERS FROM HURTING THEM AND THAT IS WHERE I NEED YOUR HELP”

Adam had never put much thought into the hellborn. To him they were simply there and as long as they got in his way during the exterminations they weren’t a problem. There was the princess, but he didn’t really count her. He was curious however as to what the Lord wanted him to do.

“THE SINNERS NEED PUNISHMENT, AND THE HELL BORN NEED PROTECTION. YOU CAN BE THEIR PROTECTOR BY BECOMING THE PUNISHER.”

 With a simple snap of his creator’s fingers Adam felt something shift within him, in his very essence he changed. A warm feeling engulfed him whole and then he knew no more.

((Oh shit- I love everything about this! God needs to fuck off and let our boy rest!

Sorry this took me a hot second to get to- and I hope my reply does yours justice 😝))

Charlie is in full work mode and has been since the failed extermination ended. Since finding out Sir Pentious ended up in Heaven.

For months, she had been working hard. It was so hard that she somehow missed the latest gossip going around the Pride Ring.

Sinners ending up missing, only to resurface months later completely different. Scared. Traumatized.

Many didn't think much of it. This is Hell. There's always some crazy bastard out there doing shit.

But, it was when they became too scared to even function, too scared to ever be normal again, too scared that they would rather turn an angelic blade on themselves than to live with the possibility of going through whatever it is they've gone through.

Charlie was actually getting quite concerned. Especially when she heard Angel talking about it one night at Husks bar.

Angel: I fucking tell ya, kitty. People a shit scared. I've never seen the clubs so empty!

Husk shook his head: Must be the worst of the worst, huh?

Angel scoffed, downing his drink: Nah, babe. It's something else. It ain't no sinner.

Husk: Hellborn?

Angel: Those guys are freaky. Don't get me wrong, but their not THAT freaky. I had a client who said he was taken for three months. Three. That's fucking child's play. But the shit he said happened to him... fucking skinning, to pouring acid down his throat. Fuck mam, the sick ficker even dug around I'm his muscle and tendons!

Angel shook his head: There's something going on... even Val has lowered the workload.

Husk: Pft. Fuck. That's how you know it's serious.

Angel: Damn fucking right.

Charlie stood at the top of the stairs, listening to Angel's story. She was shocked but not surprised. She wasn't sure why this person has the sinners so scared, but sury it's nothing new.

She probably should make sure Al isn't behind this. She's only heard a few tales of his exploits so she wouldn't put it past him.

-

Alastor: Hm. So you've heard the rumors, too. While I'm flattered, I don't appreciate being confronted in such a way.

Vaggie: Just- fucking answer her, Alastor.

Alastor sighed, leaning on his cane: No, it's not me. I've been too busy here! And my kills stay dead when I'm finishing them~.

Charlie wasn't sure if she liked that answer, but it was good enough.

She apologized to Alastor, ams watched him leave.

Vaggie: ...I don't know, Charlie.

Charlie: I don't know either...

Vaggie: I'm sure it's nothing. Besides, you have more important things to deal with here, hun. You shouldn't get mixed up in sinner issues.

Charlie sighed: I know. I just... surely, it's a coincidence that this starts after the failed extermination... that was my fault. Simmered died because of me- I put my friends in danger! I feel like I owe it to everyone to at least try and solve it.

Vaggie smiled and pulled her girlfriend onto a soft hug.

Vaggie: I know you feel like that, hun. But you don't owe anyone anything... besides, if it's that bad, you could just ask Lucifer. He said he was looking for something to do.

Charlie: Hm... that's... a good idea, actually! I'll get dad on the case!

-

Lucifer: Me on the what now? Charlie, why should I care about whatever is going on with those sinners? Their... you know... sinners.

Charlie: Dad, please? Our guests are sinners. We need them to be safe. So please. Look into this for me? Even just a little bit?

Lucifer sighed. He really didn't want to do this. But, seeing the hopeful, pleading look on his daughters face, eventually changed his mind.

Charlie: Oh- thank you, dad, thank you!

Lucifer smiled as Charlie pulled into a hug. But when she felt and heard his back crack, she slowly put him down.

Charlie: S-Sorry dad!

Lucifer laughed through the pain: It's okay, Charlie - nothing I can't handle! I-I better start hunting a... whatever the fuck this is!

[sysig]

For requestober ! do you have anything in mind for some yanderapy angst?

Day 28 - Better dead than caught

[bambinification]

Yknow how people say having to live with your parents forever as a disabled adult gives you poison damage? Yeah.

[polyamorouspunk]

Hug

*Hug*

[not-yet-so-broken]

the way you talk about victims that you don't care about is fucking disgusting. but you are so convinced of your own righteousness that you are blind to your obvious disrespect, and just assume anyone that disagrees w you just lacks your superior moral clarity.

Exhibit A

same day. this is victim blaming. this is rapist talk. no introspection. funny joke about how victims wish for it.

Exhibit B

this is victim blaming!! this is rapist talk!! prev was bad enough but there is a pattern of showing sympathy and platform to this obvious pro-rapist message. why. both these messages show obvious downplaying of victims and dehumanizing their response.

complete obvious lack of respect or empathy. tell me w a straight face youd trust a male or even a woman that posted about PIV rape anything close to this. with this language, or this victim blaming, or this no-care attitude.

well i wouldn't. and i dont trust yall either when u say this shit and then try to hide behind neutrality and civility.

Exhibit C

okay so lets get this straight. she say that when women rape she doesn't see that as horrific or terrible. its SO much less less way less horrific, that the point u both agree on is that the actual horrible thing is to even compare them and it'll cause bias to treat ACTUAL victims with the trivial treatment u think the 'less bad' situation deserve.

you agree. none of this is "contrary to your world view". more, you add on that you dont even think is violence at all. you don't think its rape at all. you gladly tell those women they are not violent and not rapists and did nothing horrific. got it.

Conclusion

according to you when a man rapes a woman, that is evil, horrific, traumatic, degrading. ok i agree.

but when a woman rapes a boy or girl, even a girl that begs not to be raped... now it's BIG LOL? you see no violence, no horror, not terrible? you think it's WRONG to compare this minor crime to "real victims"?

you think rape victims of men deserve support

but rape victims of females? they deserve the obvious propaganda and disrespect. they deserve to be taunted and say NOTHING a woman can do can be rape, can be terrible, can be horrific. they deserve to be told they wanted it. In fact you go further. These fake victims need to be told THEY'RE the real pieces of shit! they're the harmful ones here! bc they're doing a "disservice" to REAL victims if they think what happened to them is even 1% comparable. NOTHING to compare at all.

you think rapists deserve to be killed

but women who rape... well is not really rape., so they are NOT "rapists", you strongly DEFEND them from being called rapists. none of u express any hatred at ALL for these predators. the conversation in ALL three posts is about how what they did was in some way NOT wrong and you think badly of their VICTIMS. "not horrific", "not terrible", "not really degrading", "not unwanted". you are EVEN willing to entertain that they did not even do sexual assault AT ALL. is just NOTHING and should be treated like NOTHING.

like most moids u think you've ascended and have figured out the evil fake victims that need to be taken down a peg. maybe instead of trying to lecture us about how we're fake victims and nothing but whiny fuckmeat that nothing happen to, lecture the obvious rape apologists (and fucking racists) that AGREE with you and haunt your posts and comments and HARASS RAPE VICTIMS.

this entire community is filled with you fucking rape apologists and rapist defenders. fuck off.

Maybe a stupid question but do you fully agree with female-eren about male rape not being as bad as female rape?

The post in question:

Your message isn’t hugely clear - by ‘male rape’ do you mean rape perpetrated by males, or rape inflicted upon males?

The key point posited in the post is that being forcibly penetrated is likely to be typically more fundamentally traumatic than being forced to penetrate another person. Personally, as someone who has had neither experience, this makes sense to me.

I’ve previously made a post about how other forms of penetration, even consensual penetration, can cause trauma simply due to the violation of the boundary between the self and the other - think dentistry, surgery, even infection phobias. Having that boundary violated nonconsensually must be absolutely horrific, even without the added trauma of pain, possible infection, or impregnation.

I guess the simplest answer is - nothing from that post immediately jumped out at me as being counter to my worldview. I’m open to civil discussion about it though.

[garbage-floof]

do yall see one of your friends being a massive jerk and doing something slightly offensive and you fucking have a verbal fight w them in your head

like, you're a great friend! but if you don't shut the fick up and listen why this is offensive then we can't even be friends anymore

[purplelea]

Twewy native Pre week 2 neku and kh1 Riku would be the most toxic friend group ever

I had to specify neku as twewy native because in dream drop josh straight up said they all died and that's why they got sent to traverse town. But given his lines it's clear he's at least past peak asshole neku.

Thoughts?

OH YEAH VERY TRUE. but actually I don't even think they'd be friends, if that makes sense. Riku needs someone kind who looks up to him (like Sora and Kairi), and Neku pre-twewy... isn't that. Neku on the other hands needs people he can relate to and who share his worldviews (ex: how he got along with Joshua in week 2 and was able to have many interesting discussions with him despite, yknow, thinking Joshua murdered him). So it wouldn't actually work if there was only the two of them: Riku doesn't share Neku's values of shutting himself from people because he's scared of getting hurt & hurting them. And Neku only looks up to CAT.